Comments on: From the A-List to the Blacklist http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/ Connecting Businesses One By One Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:46:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Setting boundaries for behavior in Social Media at SMOblog http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-55848 Setting boundaries for behavior in Social Media at SMOblog Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:23:57 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-55848 [...] individuals responsible for the behavior that the masses find offensive, while trying to avoid the injustice of mob rule. If you liked this post, please consider voting for it in the social [...] [...] individuals responsible for the behavior that the masses find offensive, while trying to avoid the injustice of mob rule. If you liked this post, please consider voting for it in the social [...]

]]> By: One By One Media » MY epilogue and Editorial of the Kathy Sierra Saga http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-55836 One By One Media » MY epilogue and Editorial of the Kathy Sierra Saga Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:58:53 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-55836 [...] looking back on the time that I first was posted, my own initial reactions, the people I have spoken to and the people I have read has given me an [...] [...] looking back on the time that I first was posted, my own initial reactions, the people I have spoken to and the people I have read has given me an [...]

]]> By: Jonathan peterson http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-55161 Jonathan peterson Mon, 02 Apr 2007 19:15:01 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-55161 Robert - you're right about the lawyer. The point I was trying to make is that THIS post - and many others assumed that silence equated to guilt. I assume the silence indicated that a bunch of people were burning up the phone lines and emails trying to figure out what the hell was going on, and possibly figure out if they needed to get in touch with a lawyer. The mob decided quickly where the guilt lay and I'll bet you a month's salary that 20% of the people who were outraged enough about this to blog about it when Kathy's story took off will never update the story to point to Kathy and Chris' joint statement. Robert – you’re right about the lawyer. The point I was trying to make is that THIS post – and many others assumed that silence equated to guilt.

I assume the silence indicated that a bunch of people were burning up the phone lines and emails trying to figure out what the hell was going on, and possibly figure out if they needed to get in touch with a lawyer.

The mob decided quickly where the guilt lay and I’ll bet you a month’s salary that 20% of the people who were outraged enough about this to blog about it when Kathy’s story took off will never update the story to point to Kathy and Chris’ joint statement.

]]> By: Robert Scoble http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54930 Robert Scoble Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:38:31 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54930 Jonathan: that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. Any good lawyer will teach you how to work in both the real world and PR spaces as well as the legal spaces and I've never had a lawyer say "shut up." Of course, I've never been guilty either of something criminal that I was being accused of. Truth does stand up. If you're getting attacked and you are truly innocent then saying "I am innocent" won't get you into legal trouble. That said, I'd see a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer. I am NOT giving legal advice here. Go see a lawyer, etc., if you're ever in a similar situation. But, all this means is that these people didn't have good enough legal representation, or good enough PR skills or representation, or both. They have all been in contact with me and my wife and have apologized and explained what happened and that they didn't write the attacks on Maryam and I accept all their apologies. At best, though, they did create a site that was designed to attack and injure. They might have thought it was fun (bullies always do) but a site named "meankids" is pretty clear in what its intent was: be mean to other people. At worst, by leaving the site open to anonymous posters, they could be complicit in its postings (a Web site/blog isn't quite the same thing as a forum and might be judged under a different legal standard. Forums have a fairly loose legal standard if they aren't moderated/edited but blogs, because there's usually only one, or a small group of posters, are usually held to a higher standard for stuff like libel/slander. At least that's what my legal friends tell me they'd be prepared for). The fact that meankids blew up once and then was reopened AGAIN (meankids was deleted by Frank Paynter after an anonymous person, Joey, posted some really vile things about my wife. Then Chris Locke opened up a second site, where the same shit happened again. That should have been a cautionary tale to those involved that they were creating a monster that was going to go out of control). Taking it down was the right thing to do, but from what the four told me it was Frank Paynter who took the site down, not Chris Locke. The potentially criminal (and reprehensible) posts, though, was NOT done by Chris/Frank/Jeaneane/Allen. That is VERY clear to me now. Why did Kathy do what she did? You can listen to an audio interview with her here: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=business&id=5165663 It's pretty clear from listening to her that she's still hurt and scared and that she's seeing even worse attacks now than she did before she posted. The stuff I've seen in her comment area just makes me ill and someone has found her address and social security number and has been posting that on various forums and comment areas. Jonathan: that is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. Any good lawyer will teach you how to work in both the real world and PR spaces as well as the legal spaces and I’ve never had a lawyer say “shut up.” Of course, I’ve never been guilty either of something criminal that I was being accused of.

Truth does stand up. If you’re getting attacked and you are truly innocent then saying “I am innocent” won’t get you into legal trouble. That said, I’d see a lawyer. I’m not a lawyer. I am NOT giving legal advice here. Go see a lawyer, etc., if you’re ever in a similar situation.

But, all this means is that these people didn’t have good enough legal representation, or good enough PR skills or representation, or both.

They have all been in contact with me and my wife and have apologized and explained what happened and that they didn’t write the attacks on Maryam and I accept all their apologies.

At best, though, they did create a site that was designed to attack and injure. They might have thought it was fun (bullies always do) but a site named “meankids” is pretty clear in what its intent was: be mean to other people. At worst, by leaving the site open to anonymous posters, they could be complicit in its postings (a Web site/blog isn’t quite the same thing as a forum and might be judged under a different legal standard. Forums have a fairly loose legal standard if they aren’t moderated/edited but blogs, because there’s usually only one, or a small group of posters, are usually held to a higher standard for stuff like libel/slander. At least that’s what my legal friends tell me they’d be prepared for).

The fact that meankids blew up once and then was reopened AGAIN (meankids was deleted by Frank Paynter after an anonymous person, Joey, posted some really vile things about my wife. Then Chris Locke opened up a second site, where the same shit happened again. That should have been a cautionary tale to those involved that they were creating a monster that was going to go out of control).

Taking it down was the right thing to do, but from what the four told me it was Frank Paynter who took the site down, not Chris Locke.

The potentially criminal (and reprehensible) posts, though, was NOT done by Chris/Frank/Jeaneane/Allen. That is VERY clear to me now.

Why did Kathy do what she did? You can listen to an audio interview with her here: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=business&id=5165663

It’s pretty clear from listening to her that she’s still hurt and scared and that she’s seeing even worse attacks now than she did before she posted.

The stuff I’ve seen in her comment area just makes me ill and someone has found her address and social security number and has been posting that on various forums and comment areas.

]]> By: Jonathan peterson http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54926 Jonathan peterson Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:15:47 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54926 Anyone who knows anything about the law knows that when legal and police actions are threatened, you're better off keeping your mouth closed. But the mob of blog justice interpretted that silence as a tacit admission of guilt. FWIW - at this point all of the principles have now answered Kathy and she has not responded in kind. SHE has not answered Chris Locke's statement (ie. that he took down meankids because of the abuse when she told him about it, and THEN took down unclebobism for the same reason). Unless Chris is lying, I'm at a loss why Kathy would have done what she did. As I said in a different post comments - I'd be interested in seeing a timeline of known facts instead of assumptions and assertions. I'm sure that's what the police would be looking for as well. Anyone who knows anything about the law knows that when legal and police actions are threatened, you’re better off keeping your mouth closed. But the mob of blog justice interpretted that silence as a tacit admission of guilt. FWIW – at this point all of the principles have now answered Kathy and she has not responded in kind.

SHE has not answered Chris Locke’s statement (ie. that he took down meankids because of the abuse when she told him about it, and THEN took down unclebobism for the same reason).

Unless Chris is lying, I’m at a loss why Kathy would have done what she did. As I said in a different post comments – I’d be interested in seeing a timeline of known facts instead of assumptions and assertions.

I’m sure that’s what the police would be looking for as well.

]]> By: raincoaster http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54912 raincoaster Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:07:20 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54912 Indeed, it is not an assumption of guilt; it is an assumption that they are being investigated to determine guilt. And an attempt to bait them into making a response. Surely as Jeneane's friend you want an investigation so that it can clear her of the charges once and for all? Indeed, it is not an assumption of guilt; it is an assumption that they are being investigated to determine guilt. And an attempt to bait them into making a response. Surely as Jeneane’s friend you want an investigation so that it can clear her of the charges once and for all?

]]> By: Today is "Stop Cyberbullying Day" « Much ado about….. http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54911 Today is "Stop Cyberbullying Day" « Much ado about….. Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:03:02 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54911 [...] By One Media has a very good response to this issue, as does Michelle Malkin who has detailed cyberbullying for [...] [...] By One Media has a very good response to this issue, as does Michelle Malkin who has detailed cyberbullying for [...]

]]> By: Jonathan peterson http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54831 Jonathan peterson Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:21:12 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54831 This isn't an assumption of guilt? "After a good look around, I found no responses from any of these bloggers. I can only assume that this means they are in custody and being questioned for their involvement in something so heinous." Really? I'll agree that the meankids site was cheap and mean-spirited - it was also boring and insular, which is why I stopped looking at it after the first couple days. But the Kathy death threats appear to be a matter of identity theft and trolling: http://doc.weblogs.com/2007/03/28#whatItIsnt Dogpiling the principles is only making a bad situation worse and the people you and Kathy have called out have explained themselves. But once Kathy involved the police anyone with sense would talk to a lawyer before making ANY public statements. Jeneane is the only one of the people called out who I really know, but she has been as much a victim as Kathy - the difference being she has almost no one looking at HER side of things. This isn’t an assumption of guilt?
“After a good look around, I found no responses from any of these bloggers. I can only assume that this means they are in custody and being questioned for their involvement in something so heinous.”

Really?

I’ll agree that the meankids site was cheap and mean-spirited – it was also boring and insular, which is why I stopped looking at it after the first couple days. But the Kathy death threats appear to be a matter of identity theft and trolling:
http://doc.weblogs.com/2007/03/28#whatItIsnt

Dogpiling the principles is only making a bad situation worse and the people you and Kathy have called out have explained themselves. But once Kathy involved the police anyone with sense would talk to a lawyer before making ANY public statements. Jeneane is the only one of the people called out who I really know, but she has been as much a victim as Kathy – the difference being she has almost no one looking at HER side of things.

]]> By: raincoaster http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54796 raincoaster Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:03:01 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54796 I'm not seeing any assumption of guilt here; the hypotheticals and suppositions are clarified and identified as such. And the call for the owners of those names involved to come forward and simply state their innocence if they in fact did not make those posts can only help to add clarity to a murky situation. A statement from those people that the remarks that purport to be from them are not, and that they reject those remarks as heinous, would go a long way towards restoring reputations. Failing to make any comment on the nature of the remarks is, as Voltaire says, a kind of statement in and of itself; that is an assumption on MY part, reading over the story on many pages; it's not an assumption that Jim has put in his post. I’m not seeing any assumption of guilt here; the hypotheticals and suppositions are clarified and identified as such. And the call for the owners of those names involved to come forward and simply state their innocence if they in fact did not make those posts can only help to add clarity to a murky situation. A statement from those people that the remarks that purport to be from them are not, and that they reject those remarks as heinous, would go a long way towards restoring reputations.

Failing to make any comment on the nature of the remarks is, as Voltaire says, a kind of statement in and of itself; that is an assumption on MY part, reading over the story on many pages; it’s not an assumption that Jim has put in his post.

]]> By: Jim Turner http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54795 Jim Turner Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:58:20 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54795 I disagree Jonathan, I did not assume any guilt. My initial look was to go and find out their side of the story. I could not find a single person named had anything to say about the Sierra post. I did say my initial response was an emotional one and I wanted to stay objective and that it was hard to remain objective. I tried to make that apparent throughout. Am I still pissed. Yes. My head has cleared somewhat from my initial reaction. I am right now working on my own summary and opinion based on what I have learned and upon what I have seen, read, and surmised from what is available. It's taking longer than I thought because I want to make sure I am not missing something. I do appreciate your comment. I disagree Jonathan, I did not assume any guilt. My initial look was to go and find out their side of the story. I could not find a single person named had anything to say about the Sierra post. I did say my initial response was an emotional one and I wanted to stay objective and that it was hard to remain objective. I tried to make that apparent throughout. Am I still pissed. Yes. My head has cleared somewhat from my initial reaction. I am right now working on my own summary and opinion based on what I have learned and upon what I have seen, read, and surmised from what is available. It’s taking longer than I thought because I want to make sure I am not missing something. I do appreciate your comment.

]]> By: Jonathan peterson http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54794 Jonathan peterson Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:40:05 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54794 FWIW - You immediately assumed guilt on the part of everyone Kathy mentioned (Chris Locke, Frank Paynter, Jeneane Sessum, and Allen Herrel) and one has to read quite far down to see the story unfold. Perhaps when you put together more of a summary of what happened at your feelings about it you could put a link to it in the top? I think you owe that to the people accused as much as they owed explanations to Kathy. FWIW – You immediately assumed guilt on the part of everyone Kathy mentioned (Chris Locke, Frank Paynter, Jeneane Sessum, and Allen Herrel) and one has to read quite far down to see the story unfold.

Perhaps when you put together more of a summary of what happened at your feelings about it you could put a link to it in the top? I think you owe that to the people accused as much as they owed explanations to Kathy.

]]> By: Jim Turner http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54783 Jim Turner Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:43:46 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54783 I agree Jon, after stepping back I now understand why my wife looks at me with that look sometimes of "what the hell are you talking about?" I agree Jon, after stepping back I now understand why my wife looks at me with that look sometimes of “what the hell are you talking about?”

]]> By: Jon Husband http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54782 Jon Husband Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:28:28 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54782 I initially interpreted the blog post title as sending the suggested perps to the blacklist, and as you state there has been no small amount of that dynamic floating around. But if you are speaking out against blacklisting without proof and link-driven McCarthyism, then I understand better now. I initially interpreted the blog post title as sending the suggested perps to the blacklist, and as you state there has been no small amount of that dynamic floating around.

But if you are speaking out against blacklisting without proof and link-driven McCarthyism, then I understand better now.

]]> By: Jim Turner http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54781 Jim Turner Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:20:07 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54781 I will stand again by my post title Jon as it really does describe what has happened. The "A-List" if it really is that, has imploded on itself, and it is now calling for blacklisting and McCarthyism. I do think that is wrong, but it does go to show what can happen. I will stand again by my post title Jon as it really does describe what has happened. The “A-List” if it really is that, has imploded on itself, and it is now calling for blacklisting and McCarthyism. I do think that is wrong, but it does go to show what can happen.

]]> By: Jon Husband http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/comment-page-1/#comment-54778 Jon Husband Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:10:13 +0000 http://www.onebyonemedia.com/from-the-a-list-to-the-blacklist/#comment-54778 As I said to Jim Turner in an email exchange, I do not find the title of this blog post to be a helpful addition to the discussion raging on some blogs. It adds fuel to a fire that is perhaps burning more than it should. This is far from the first time hateful things have been said on blogs or in blog comments, and it is as much wrong to indict people without proof as it is to deliver threats via posting or links. As I said to Jim Turner in an email exchange, I do not find the title of this blog post to be a helpful addition to the discussion raging on some blogs. It adds fuel to a fire that is perhaps burning more than it should.

This is far from the first time hateful things have been said on blogs or in blog comments, and it is as much wrong to indict people without proof as it is to deliver threats via posting or links.

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